Trouble installing Win3.1 on laptop

[Harry Potter]

Hi. I just tried *again* to install Windows 3.1 on a laptop and am running into a problem: Setup works fine. The files copy. Windows setup starts. I get to select files to install. I set the Virtual Memory settings. Then I get two error messages stating a Page Fault, one in WINSETUP.EXE and one in USER.EXE. I deleted the install. What could be causing this?

BTW, the laptop has a 486DX4/75MHz microprocessor, 28MB RAM, a VGA display, no sound card and hard drives simulated through two ZIP100 drives, a network and two RAM drives, all compressed.

[JJ]

... and hard drives simulated through two ZIP100 drives

Could be due to the 386 Enhanced mode of Windows 3.x which requires 32-bit
disk driver. Normally, if the driver is missing, it'll fallback to
compatibility mode. Check the ZIP drive documentation about running Windows
3.x in it.

[Harry Potter]

Post by JJ

... and hard drives simulated through two ZIP100 drives

Could be due to the 386 Enhanced mode of Windows 3.x which requires 32-bit
disk driver. Normally, if the driver is missing, it'll fallback to
compatibility mode. Check the ZIP drive documentation about running Windows
3.x in it.

I don't think I have the manual. If I do, I don't know where it is. :(

[Harry Potter]

If it helps, I'm using the PalmZip driver for the on-board Zip100 drive; the other one is on the network, and I'm using NSLAN for the network.

[JJ]

Post by Harry Potter
If it helps, I'm using the PalmZip driver for the on-board Zip100 drive;
the other one is on the network, and I'm using NSLAN for the network.

Can't really tell. If the driver is 100% compatible with Windows, there
shouldn't be a problem, since Windows will fallback to compatibility mode
for disk access. It won't cause Windows to crash. If it still crashes, the
conflict could be due to other driver.

[Harry Potter]

The following is a dump of the DOS memory layout as when the Windows 3.1 Setup program loads and runs:
-----------------------------

Conventional Memory Detail:

Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,039 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 271 (0K) ROM Communication Area
00050 527 (1K) DOS Communication Area
00070 2,560 (3K) IO System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - B: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
00110 5,040 (5K) MSDOS System Data
0024B 7,712 (8K) IO System Data
768 (1K) QEMM386$ Installed Device=QEMM386
1,184 (1K) C: Installed Device=RAMDRIVE
1,776 (2K) FILES=35
256 (0K) FCBS=4
512 (1K) BUFFERS=15
1,232 (1K) LASTDRIVE=N
1,856 (2K) STACKS=9,128
0042D 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
00432 112 (0K) LOADHI Program
00439 1,040 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0047A 304 (0K) MEM Environment
0048D 128 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --
00495 30,960 (30K) DOSNET Program
00C24 88,992 (87K) MEM Program
021DE 516,624 (505K) MSDOS -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B001 1 5,248 (5K) IO System Data
5,216 (5K) 2M$ Installed Device=2M
0B149 1 2,992 (3K) IO System Data
2,960 (3K) D: Installed Device=PALMZIP
0B204 1 17,504 (17K) IO System Data
17,472 (17K) SPKR Installed Device=DRVSPKR
0B64A 1 6,976 (7K) MSDOS -- Free --

0C001 2 35,200 (34K) IO System Data
35,168 (34K) E: - H: Installed Device=JAM
0C899 2 2,656 (3K) COMMAND Program
0C93F 2 80 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --
0C944 2 112 (0K) MOUSE Environment
0C94B 2 14,464 (14K) MOUSE Program
0CCD3 2 128 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --
0CCDB 2 3,920 (4K) DOSKEY Program
0CDD0 2 29,024 (28K) SMARTDRV Program
0D4E6 2 6,480 (6K) SHARE Program
0D67B 2 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0D6CB 2 37,680 (37K) MSDOS -- Free --

0EAFA 3 4,192 (4K) MSDOS -- Free --

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Conventional 655,360 49,616 605,744
Upper 168,000 118,944 49,056
Reserved 393,216 393,216 0
Extended (XMS) 28,143,552 12,840,896 15,302,656
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Total memory 29,360,128 13,402,672 15,957,456

Total under 1 MB 823,360 168,560 654,800


Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 09C000
1 HMA 010000
2 EMB2 A00000
3 EMB3 200000

Total Expanded (EMS) 28,590,080 (27,920K
Free Expanded (EMS) 15,302,656 (14,944K
Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 605,600 (591K)
Largest free upper memory block 37,680 (37K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

XMS version 3.00; driver version 7.04
EMS version 4.00
--------------------
Does this help?

[JJ]

Post by Harry Potter
The following is a dump of the DOS memory layout as when the Windows 3.1
-----------------------------

[snip]

The most likely troublemaker is QEMM. QEMM has lots of possible problems
specific to Windows. They have workarounds either by changing/adding some
settings in Windows SYSTEM.INI, and/or changing the QEMM configuration. I'd
suggest hunting all of their technotes from the internet.

Other possible causes are drivers whose last version are released before
Windows 95 exists. Meaning that they're not aware of Windows 95. Thus,
compatibility with Windows 95 is unknown. I'd suggest checking all
discussions you could find about those drivers and Windows 9x.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Harry Potter
If it helps, I'm using the PalmZip driver for the on-board Zip100 drive;
the other one is on the network, and I'm using NSLAN for the network.

So you're using a 3rd party / non-Iomega driver to access the Zip drive.

Will you please clarify what NSLAN is?

What ports does it use?

What protocols does it use?

It sounds like it's something like interlnk & intersvr from MS-DOS or
Direct Cable Connection from inside of Windows 9x. (I have no idea if
there are newer versions of DCC.)

I found some posting online that seen to be from you saying "NSLAN"
multiple times, so I assume that it's not a typo for MSLAN.

[Harry Potter]

Post by Grant Taylor
Will you please clarify what NSLAN is?

NetSoft LAN.

Post by Grant Taylor
What ports does it use?

A serial port with a null-modem serial cable.

Post by Grant Taylor
What protocols does it use?

I don't know. :(

Post by Grant Taylor
It sounds like it's something like interlnk & intersvr from MS-DOS or
Direct Cable Connection from inside of Windows 9x. (I have no idea if
there are newer versions of DCC.)

No. Win 3.1 and NSLAN.

Post by Grant Taylor
I found some posting online that seen to be from you saying "NSLAN"
multiple times, so I assume that it's not a typo for MSLAN.

No, it's not.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Harry Potter
NetSoft LAN.

Thank you.

I found a few copies of nslan140.zip online. (Incidentally, the one
that the Internet Archive has seems to have a CRC error.)

According to the NSLAN140.TXT file:

"NetSoft LAN is 100% MS-NET, IBM PC LAN and WinNet compatible."

So, that makes me think that NSLAN is a NetBIOS LAN.

Which leads me to believe that you should in theory be able to get
Windows to talk to it using NetBEUI (what Microsoft calls NetBIOS) and
the Client for Microsoft Networks.

That does assume that the two machines will share a physical connection.

Post by Harry Potter
A serial port with a null-modem serial cable.

Okay.

I've never heard of Windows using NetBIOS over serial, save for Dial Up
Networking.

So you may need to install NSLAN on the Windows computer.

Post by Harry Potter
I don't know. :(

I'm guessing NetBIOS.

Post by Harry Potter
No. Win 3.1 and NSLAN.

Okay.

Post by Harry Potter
No, it's not.

ACK.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Grant Taylor
So, that makes me think that NSLAN is a NetBIOS LAN.

Maybe.

It looks like NSLAN can emulate NetBIOS. But NSLAN also has the concept
of a computer number. That's not part of NetBIOS. So I'm guessing that
NSLAN is running another (it's own) protocol in parallel.

I may have to see if I can get it working in a VM using one of the
Ethernet drivers (I saw SMC and AMD PCnet NICs listed) and see what
packets it emits.

Post by Grant Taylor
Which leads me to believe that you should in theory be able to get
Windows to talk to it using NetBEUI (what Microsoft calls NetBIOS) and
the Client for Microsoft Networks.

Clarification:

Microsoft says NetBEUI
The rest of the industry says NetBIOS.

Post by Grant Taylor
That does assume that the two machines will share a physical connection.

Thankfully NSLAN seems to support a large number of physical
connections. An impressive number. Ethernet being among them.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Sun, 13 May 2018 06:44:02 GMT, Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor
So, that makes me think that NSLAN is a NetBIOS LAN.

Maybe.
It looks like NSLAN can emulate NetBIOS. But NSLAN also has the concept
of a computer number. That's not part of NetBIOS. So I'm guessing that
NSLAN is running another (it's own) protocol in parallel.
I may have to see if I can get it working in a VM using one of the
Ethernet drivers (I saw SMC and AMD PCnet NICs listed) and see what
packets it emits.

Post by Grant Taylor
Which leads me to believe that you should in theory be able to get
Windows to talk to it using NetBEUI (what Microsoft calls NetBIOS) and
the Client for Microsoft Networks.

Microsoft says NetBEUI
The rest of the industry says NetBIOS.

Post by Grant Taylor
That does assume that the two machines will share a physical

connection.

Post by Grant Taylor
Thankfully NSLAN seems to support a large number of physical
connections. An impressive number. Ethernet being among them.

Way, way back I recall being impressed with the much lower memory
overhead that NSLAN had over MS's DOS Client. But I didn't get it
working, so I doubt I'll be any help after all.

[Grant Taylor]

Way, way back I recall being impressed with the much lower memory overhead
that NSLAN had over MS's DOS Client. But I didn't get it working, so I
doubt I'll be any help after all.

I was sufficiently impressed by what I saw when I was poking at it for
the OP.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Sun, 13 May 2018 22:54:38 GMT, Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Way, way back I recall being impressed with the much lower memory
overhead that NSLAN had over MS's DOS Client. But I didn't get it
working, so I doubt I'll be any help after all.

I was sufficiently impressed by what I saw when I was poking at it for
the OP.

Amazingly, another DOS LAN product, LANtastic is still for sale:
http://pcmicro.com/lantastic/order/

[Grant Taylor]

Yep. I'm aware of Artisoft's LANtastic product. I'm trying to legally
acquire a couple (old) of copies of it to mess with.

[JJ]

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
http://pcmicro.com/lantastic/order/

I'm guessing that it's still used for old, highly durable factory
equipments.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Harry Potter
I set the Virtual Memory settings. Then I get two error messages stating
a Page Fault, one in WINSETUP.EXE and one in USER.EXE.

Hum.

I want to say the last time I ran into something like this it was
because of corruption in files that were being copied and run. The
corruption was just such that the file copied, but then would not
execute properly.

Post by Harry Potter
I deleted the install.

Why?

Post by Harry Potter
What could be causing this?

It's hard to say.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, the laptop has a 486DX4/75MHz microprocessor, 28MB RAM, a VGA
display, no sound card and hard drives simulated through two ZIP100
drives, a network and two RAM drives, all compressed.

The thing that concerns me are the ZIP drives as hard drives. What is
their physical interface? Seeing as how this is a notebook, I'm
guessing that they are parallel port. Which likely means that you're
running the DOS guest driver / TSR.

I doubt the guest TSR in and of itself is the problem. Windows should
work just fine with a parallel port ZIP drive. But Windows may not be
able to do things to it like it wants to when installed on a ZIP disk.
I.e. it might not be able to get an exclusive lock on the ZIP disks for
the page file.

What network client / protocol / etc are you using? Again I'm guessing
DOS based drivers. What are you using the network for? Do you need it
as part of your Windows 3.x install? Can you disable that and then use
the Windows counterpart?

The RAM drives aren't that big of a deal to me. But I'm curious what
you're using them for. How big are they? How much of the 28 MB are
they using?

Finally, what do you mean by "all compressed"?

Are you talking about DriveSpace / DoubleSpace from Microsoft, or
SuperStore or Stacker from IBM? Or are you talking about something else?

Are you trying to install Windows 3.1 into a compressed disk which is
really an underlying file living on a ZIP disk that is being accessed
via a parallel port?

[Harry Potter]

I got it to work! :D I disabled network support, and now it works.