Win98 DOS mode cfg: need more RAM!

Okay. I have the DOS config files here:

CONFIG.SYS:
-------------------------------
DOS=HIGH,UMB
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe RAM i=b000-b7ff
DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\STACKER.COM
devicehigh=c:\dos\furd19_i\xmsdsk.exe 110000
DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\Screate.sys e:
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\redirect.com
devicehigh=C:\WINDOWS\command\ebd\oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
rem devicehigh/l:1 =c:\guest95\aspippm1.sys
rem devicehigh=C:\network\palmzip\0221\palmzip.sys
-------------------------------
AUTOEXEC.BAT:
-------------------------------
@echo off
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;c:\dosnet;c:\network;c:\stacker4;c:\network\rar

lh guest95\guest

stacker e:
stacker f:

lh MSCDEX.EXE /D:mscd001 d:
lh doskey /insert

-------------------------------
Do these help?

BTW, I should be using the DOS laptop tomorrow, so I should have the memory layout then.

2019-02-25 12:31:43 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I have a problem, though: the DOS network configuration on the Win98
computer *eats* DOS memory.

What network configuration?

Post by Harry Potter
For now, I tried QEMM: as soon as the driver loads, the computer stops
booting.

Isolate the problem. Use switches to disable QEMM features in order to use
minimum features. If everything is already disabled but still froze/crash
the system, it means that QEMM is not compatible with the computer (which
usually, the motherboard chipset). If it loads OK, remove the switches one
by one to enable one feature at a time, so that you'll know which feature is
causing the problem.

Post by Harry Potter
I have two programs to treat VGA memory as extra DOS memory. These should
be able to help with some DOS programs.

Windows 9x might need to be configured to exclude the VGA memory ranges.
Otherwise, it may not be able to start.

Post by Harry Potter
devicehigh=c:\dos\furd19_i\xmsdsk.exe 110000

Depending on how much is uses the 1MB memory, consider checking other RAM
drive provider tools which may use lesser memory. Judging from the DOS
configuration files, the RAM drive is not used during DOS startup. So,
consider using an unloadable RAM drive tool. Load it only when it's needed
then unloads it when it's no longer used.
Use expanded memory. If the CD drive is not used frequently, use a small
buffer. Also check FreeDOS' version of MSCDEX. IIRC, it uses less memory.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, I should be using the DOS laptop tomorrow, so I should have the memory layout then.

Use the output of: MEM /D

Harry Potter

2019-02-25 13:43:12 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I have a problem, though: the DOS network configuration on the Win98
computer *eats* DOS memory.

What network configuration?

I use NSLAN.

Post by Harry Potter
For now, I tried QEMM: as soon as the driver loads, the computer stops
booting.

Removing the RA parameter helped, but I *need* UMBs. :(

Post by Harry Potter
I have two programs to treat VGA memory as extra DOS memory. These should
be able to help with some DOS programs.

Windows 9x might need to be configured to exclude the VGA memory ranges.
Otherwise, it may not be able to start.

I know thst. I didn't use it yet.

Post by Harry Potter
devicehigh=c:\dos\furd19_i\xmsdsk.exe 110000

I think that the tool I use is *both* unloadable *and* efficient. However, it is needed later on.

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 01:06:34 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Hi! I have a Win98 computer networked to a DOS computer for the purpose
of making more drive space available.

Which computer are you making more drive space available to? Is the DOS
computer using the '98 computer's disk? Or is the '98 computer using
the DOS computer's disk?

If it's the former (DOS using '98's disk) why do you need to (re)boot
Windows 98 into DOS mode? Why don't you just share files / folders from
within Windows 98?

Post by Harry Potter
I have a problem, though: the DOS network configuration on the Win98
computer *eats* DOS memory. I will soon provide the configuration scripts
and memory layout. For now, I tried QEMM: as soon as the driver loads,
the computer stops booting.

Are you booting '98 into MS-DOS mode? Or trying to use QEMM to manage
memory for Windows 98 in normal mode?

IMHO 3rd party memory managers really stopped being a thing when '95
came out.

Post by Harry Potter
I have two programs to treat VGA memory as extra DOS memory. These should
be able to help with some DOS programs.

I'm highly suspicious of the programs.

Post by Harry Potter
What else can I do to free some extra memory?

I've never had the need to do anything more than himem.sys or
emm386.exe, usually via memmaker. But that was usually MS-DOS 6.22. I
don't know how much of that is still around in '98. Especially seeing
as how '95 and '98 were meant to run in normal (GUI) mode with all of
the normal Windows enhancements.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-02-24 06:35:48 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
Which computer are you making more drive space available to? Is the DOS
computer using the '98 computer's disk? Or is the '98 computer using
the DOS computer's disk?

The DOS computer is using the Win98 computer's drives as secondary hard drives.

Post by Grant Taylor
If it's the former (DOS using '98's disk) why do you need to (re)boot
Windows 98 into DOS mode? Why don't you just share files / folders from
within Windows 98?

Because I'm aware of no program to share Win98 drives with a DOS computer. BTW, they are connected using a null-modem serial cable.

Post by Grant Taylor
Are you booting '98 into MS-DOS mode? Or trying to use QEMM to manage
memory for Windows 98 in normal mode?

It works in in Windows mode but not DOS mode. :( It stops booting as soon as the driver's loaded.

Post by Grant Taylor
I'm highly suspicious of the programs.

I don't blame you. They *will* cause problems if I try to use a graphics mode. :(

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 06:58:19 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
The DOS computer is using the Win98 computer's drives as secondary hard drives.

ACK

Post by Harry Potter
Because I'm aware of no program to share Win98 drives with a DOS computer.

Standard Windows File & Printer Sharing should work. You can get MS-DOS
to use TCP/IP and / or you can get Windows 98 to use NetBIOS (a.k.a.
NetBEUI).

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, they are connected using a null-modem serial cable.

Hum.

That complicates things.

Is there a reason to not use Ethernet?

I've had discussions with people about old networking programs within
the last year. Now I need to try to remember where they were.

Is Ethernet or Token Ring an option for you? That would simplify things
greatly.

I don't think Windows 98's Direct Cable Connection (or what ever it was
called then) is compatible with InterLink & InterServ. Even though it's
effectively the same thing. I think it's possible to have DCC server
running in '98 while doing other things. And InterLink (interlnk.exe)
can run, map drives, and do things as a TSR so you can use the computer.

Post by Harry Potter
It works in in Windows mode but not DOS mode. :( It stops booting as
soon as the driver's loaded.

Okay.

Post by Harry Potter
I don't blame you. They *will* cause problems if I try to use a graphics mode. :(

*nod*

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 07:12:09 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
I've had discussions with people about old networking programs within
the last year. Now I need to try to remember where they were.

Check out the "Old DOS networking technologies" thread in this newsgroup
from May 13, 2018.

Here's a summary of the techniques listed in that thread:

- Artisoft LANtastic
- Banyan VINES
- EtherDFS (http://etherdfs.sourceforge.net)
- Invisible LAN (http://www.invisiblesoft.com/invlan/software.html)
- LapLink
- Microsoft's LAN Man client / redirector for DOS.
- MS-DOS's INTERLNK.EXE & INTERSVR.EXE
- NetSoft's NSLAN v1.40
- Novell NetWare

I'm sure there are others that weren't mentioned in the thread.

Something to connect to DECnet probably exists for DOS.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-02-24 07:25:00 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
The DOS computer is using the Win98 computer's drives as secondary hard drives.

ACK

:'(

Post by Grant Taylor
Standard Windows File & Printer Sharing should work. You can get MS-DOS
to use TCP/IP and / or you can get Windows 98 to use NetBIOS (a.k.a.
NetBEUI).

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, they are connected using a null-modem serial cable.

Hum.
That complicates things.
Is there a reason to not use Ethernet?

Price.

Post by Grant Taylor
I've had discussions with people about old networking programs within
the last year. Now I need to try to remember where they were.
Is Ethernet or Token Ring an option for you? That would simplify things
greatly.

I don't currently have the money to pay for one. :(

Post by Grant Taylor
I don't think Windows 98's Direct Cable Connection (or what ever it was
called then) is compatible with InterLink & InterServ. Even though it's
effectively the same thing. I think it's possible to have DCC server
running in '98 while doing other things. And InterLink (interlnk.exe)
can run, map drives, and do things as a TSR so you can use the computer.

Post by Harry Potter
I don't blame you. They *will* cause problems if I try to use a graphics mode. :(

*nod*

That's bad. For that reason, I don't automatically load the driver on start-up.

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 17:52:41 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
:'(

Why the sad face?

Post by Harry Potter
Price.
I don't currently have the money to pay for one. :(

Okay.

What equipment do you have?

Do either of the machines have an Ethernet NIC in them?

Post by Harry Potter
That's bad. For that reason, I don't automatically load the driver on start-up.

I've done some playing with config.sys menus and dynamic autoexec.bat
behavior based off of the %CONFIG% environment variable.

I /think/ you should be able to stuff those in the versions of the
config.sys & autoexec.bat files that get used when Windows 98 boots into
MS-DOS mode.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-02-24 18:10:17 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Price.
I don't currently have the money to pay for one. :(

Okay.
What equipment do you have?

I have a DOS laptop with no hard drive connected via a null-modem serial cable to a Win98 computer with a small hard drive and a sufficiently large USB drive. Both computers have an Iomega Parallel Zip100 drive, and I use two specific Zip disks with them to simulate hard drives. Two RAM drives are used on the two computers to also simulate hard drives: they are filled with software upon start-up.

Post by Grant Taylor
Do either of the machines have an Ethernet NIC in them?

I doubt it. :(

Post by Harry Potter
That's bad. For that reason, I don't automatically load the driver on start-up.

I've done some playing with config.sys menus and dynamic autoexec.bat
behavior based off of the %CONFIG% environment variable.
I /think/ you should be able to stuff those in the versions of the
config.sys & autoexec.bat files that get used when Windows 98 boots into
MS-DOS mode.

I am aware of the menus, but I'm using a .PIF file for the network on the Win98 computer.

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 18:32:05 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I have a DOS laptop with no hard drive connected via a null-modem serial
cable to a Win98 computer with a small hard drive and a sufficiently
large USB drive. Both computers have an Iomega Parallel Zip100 drive,
and I use two specific Zip disks with them to simulate hard drives.
they are filled with software upon start-up.

ACK

Post by Harry Potter
I doubt it. :(

What make and model are the computers?

Post by Harry Potter
I am aware of the menus, but I'm using a .PIF file for the network on the Win98 computer.

Are you causing Windows 98 to reboot into MS-DOS mode via .pif parameters?

I thought .pif could substitute different config.sys and / or
autoexec.bat files as necessary.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-02-24 18:46:27 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
What make and model are the computers?

The Win98 mini-tower is a Dell Dimension V400 PC, and the laptop is a NEC Versa 2000D computer.

Post by Harry Potter
I am aware of the menus, but I'm using a .PIF file for the network on
the Win98 computer.

Are you causing Windows 98 to reboot into MS-DOS mode via .pif parameters?

Yes, I am.

Post by Grant Taylor
I thought .pif could substitute different config.sys and / or
autoexec.bat files as necessary.

Mine does. :)

Harry Potter

2019-02-24 19:06:22 UTC

Here's the memory layout of the Win98 PC during network mode as promised:
--------------------------

Conventional Memory Detail:

Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication Area
00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication Area
00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - C: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
CONFIG$ System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
000C9 5,760 (6K) MSDOS System Data
00231 177,232 (173K) IO System Data
1,152 (1K) XMSXXXX0 Installed Device=HIMEM
4,304 (4K) EMMXXXX0 Installed Device=EMM386
51,392 (50K) D: Installed Device=STACKER
36,048 (35K) MSCD001 Installed Device=OAKCDROM
83,152 (81K) DBLSBIN$ Installed Device=DBLSPACE
544 (1K) Sector buffer
512 (1K) BUFFERS=20
02D76 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
02D7B 19,280 (19K) GUEST Program
03230 96 (0K) COMMAND Data
03236 304 (0K) MEM Environment
03249 46,128 (45K) MSDOS -- Free --
03D8C 7,152 (7K) ASPIPPM1 Program
03F4B 4,688 (5K) DOSKEY Program
04070 30,736 (30K) DOSNET Program
047F1 90,464 (88K) MEM Program
05E07 268,160 (262K) MSDOS -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B15C 1 26,880 (26K) IO System Data
0B7EC 1 80 (0K) COMMAND Data
0B7F1 1 208 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0C801 2 624 (1K) IO System Data
592 (1K) E: Installed Device=XMSDSK
0C828 2 21,968 (21K) IO System Data
2,848 (3K) IFS$HLP$ Installed Device=IFSHLP
464 (0K) Block device tables
688 (1K) Drive map table
1,488 (1K) FILES=30
256 (0K) FCBS=4
10,720 (10K) BUFFERS=20
2,288 (2K) LASTDRIVE=Z
3,072 (3K) STACKS=9,256
0CD85 2 8,624 (8K) COMMAND Program
0CFA0 2 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0CFFA 2 64 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0E401 3 288 (0K) GUEST Environment
0E413 3 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0E463 3 5,536 (5K) COMMAND Program
0E5BD 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E617 3 3,728 (4K) MSDOS -- Free --

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 248,560 404,752
Upper 72,192 68,192 4,000
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 133,096,960 113,288,704 19,808,256
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,822,464 113,605,456 20,217,008

Total under 1 MB 725,504 316,752 408,752

Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 060000

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 20,054,016 (19M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 358,608 (350K)
Largest free upper memory block 3,728 (4K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

XMS version 3.00; driver version 3.95
EMS version 4.00
---------------------------

Kerr-Mudd,John

2019-02-25 20:55:48 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Here's the memory layout of the Win98 PC during network mode as
promised: --------------------------
Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication
Area 00050 512 (1K) DOS
Communication Area 00070 1,424 (1K) IO
System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - C: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
CONFIG$ System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
000C9 5,760 (6K) MSDOS System Data
00231 177,232 (173K) IO System Data
1,152 (1K) XMSXXXX0 Installed
Device=HIMEM 4,304 (4K) EMMXXXX0
Installed Device=EMM386
51,392 (50K) D: Installed
Device=STACKER 36,048 (35K) MSCD001
Installed Device=OAKCDROM
83,152 (81K) DBLSBIN$ Installed
Device=DBLSPACE

Clearly the easy win is to dump Dblspace and Stacker

Post by Harry Potter
544 (1K) Sector buffer
512 (1K) BUFFERS=20
02D76 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
02D7B 19,280 (19K) GUEST Program
03230 96 (0K) COMMAND Data
03236 304 (0K) MEM Environment
03249 46,128 (45K) MSDOS -- Free --
03D8C 7,152 (7K) ASPIPPM1 Program
03F4B 4,688 (5K) DOSKEY Program
04070 30,736 (30K) DOSNET Program
047F1 90,464 (88K) MEM Program
05E07 268,160 (262K) MSDOS -- Free --
Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B15C 1 26,880 (26K) IO System Data
0B7EC 1 80 (0K) COMMAND Data
0B7F1 1 208 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --
0C801 2 624 (1K) IO System Data
592 (1K) E: Installed
Device=XMSDSK
0C828 2 21,968 (21K) IO System Data
2,848 (3K) IFS$HLP$ Installed
Device=IFSHLP
464 (0K) Block device tables
688 (1K) Drive map table
1,488 (1K) FILES=30
256 (0K) FCBS=4
10,720 (10K) BUFFERS=20
2,288 (2K) LASTDRIVE=Z
3,072 (3K) STACKS=9,256
0CD85 2 8,624 (8K) COMMAND Program
0CFA0 2 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0CFFA 2 64 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --
0E401 3 288 (0K) GUEST Environment
0E413 3 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0E463 3 5,536 (5K) COMMAND Program
0E5BD 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E617 3 3,728 (4K) MSDOS -- Free --
Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 248,560 404,752
Upper 72,192 68,192 4,000
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 133,096,960 113,288,704 19,808,256
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,822,464 113,605,456 20,217,008
Total under 1 MB 725,504 316,752 408,752
Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 060000
Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 20,054,016 (19M)
* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.
Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 358,608 (350K)
Largest free upper memory block 3,728 (4K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.
XMS version 3.00; driver version 3.95
EMS version 4.00
---------------------------

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Grant Taylor

2019-02-25 23:14:56 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Clearly the easy win is to dump Dblspace and Stacker

Would DoubleSpace / Stacker / DriveSpace mount an image that comes from
a network drive?

Not that I would want to.

I'm just wondering if it would work.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Kerr-Mudd,John

2019-02-26 09:46:29 UTC

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 23:14:56 GMT, Grant Taylor

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Clearly the easy win is to dump Dblspace and Stacker

Would DoubleSpace / Stacker / DriveSpace mount an image that comes from
a network drive?
Not that I would want to.
I'm just wondering if it would work.

Dunno; never tried. It'd depend on what which program gets there first
and the level at which file redirection gets intercepted, I'd imagine.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

2019-02-26 19:13:39 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
--------------------------

[snip]

Which program loads ASPIPPM1, DOSNET, and SERIAL? I don't see them being
loaded in AUTOEXEC.BAT. And what is their actual execution order?

You're already using Stacker. Don't load DoubleSpace. Use DoubleSpace only
if you're having problem with Stacker.

Post by JJ
Isolate the problem. Use switches to disable QEMM features in order to use
minimum features. If everything is already disabled but still froze/crash
the system, it means that QEMM is not compatible with the computer (which
usually, the motherboard chipset). If it loads OK, remove the switches one
by one to enable one feature at a time, so that you'll know which feature is
causing the problem.

Removing the RA parameter helped, but I *need* UMBs. :(

Of course you need the UMB. What you need to disable is everything except
UMB support or its required features. QEMM is an optimistic memory manager.
Its changes to crash the system is pretty high. Especially for hardwares
which are released after that QEMM version is released.

Harry Potter

2019-02-26 23:06:34 UTC

Post by JJ
Which program loads ASPIPPM1, DOSNET, and SERIAL? I don't see them being
loaded in AUTOEXEC.BAT. And what is their actual execution order?

GUEST loads ASPIPPM1, and DOSNET and SERIAL are loaded by a batch file that initializes the network.

Post by JJ
You're already using Stacker. Don't load DoubleSpace. Use DoubleSpace only
if you're having problem with Stacker.

I thought DriveSpace was disabled. I guess I was wrong. :(

Post by JJ
Of course you need the UMB. What you need to disable is everything except
UMB support or its required features. QEMM is an optimistic memory manager.
Its changes to crash the system is pretty high. Especially for hardwares
which are released after that QEMM version is released.

I pretty much narrowed down the problem to UMB support, because removing the RAM parameter works, and X=F000-FFFF doesn't.

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 22:00:05 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
The Win98 mini-tower is a Dell Dimension V400 PC, and the laptop is a
NEC Versa 2000D computer.

According 90 seconds of research, it looks like the Dell Dimension V400
has an onboard Ethernet NIC near the PS/2 connectors. It also looks
like the NEC Versa 2000D has PCMCIA slots.

So, for a nominal expense, you could likely pick up a PCMCIA Ethernet
NIC and a cross over network cable.

Doing this would allow you to have more traditional networking between
the machines. Even if it's only 10BaseT, that's likely to be
CONSIDERABLY faster than the serial / parallel connection you are using now.

Plus, it would allow you to run Windows while the Versa is using the
remote storage on the Dimension.

Post by Harry Potter
Yes, I am.

ACK

Post by Harry Potter
Mine does. :)

ACK

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Grant Taylor

2019-02-24 22:06:01 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
So, for a nominal expense, you could likely pick up a PCMCIA Ethernet
NIC and a cross over network cable.

I have no idea what your budget looks like. Some people quite literally
have all of their money allocated to family. I think that's a laudable
goal. I have no problem and do not judge people who prioritize family
before fun. That being said, it does look like a PCMCIA Ethernet card
can be had for $5 ~ $10 off of eBay.

I will say that I have seen such PCMCIA Ethernet cards in multiple 2nd
hand stores for years. You might even be able to pick one up for $1.

If you can acquire a card, I'll create and mail you a cross over cable
that will work for 10BaseT and 100BaseT.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-02-27 18:22:15 UTC

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 22:35:48 -0800 (PST), Harry Potter

Post by Harry Potter
I'm aware of no program to share Win98 drives with a DOS computer.

See Microsoft LAN Manager 2.2c. It's a NETBEUI client for DOS. The basic
redirector can mount Win98 shares, using 40k of DOS memory. Plus your
LAN card driver will take another 30-50k. But if you can get some things
loaded high, it's not bad.

Harry Potter

2019-03-01 16:04:08 UTC

After killing DriveSpace, how else can I free up some DOS memory?

Harry Potter

2019-03-02 15:12:02 UTC

Okay. I'm at my mother's house right now and can try to disable DriveSpace DOS. The proper lines in the MSDOS.SYS file are DblSpace=0 and DrvSpace=0, right?

Harry Potter

2019-03-02 19:38:18 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Okay. I'm at my mother's house right now and can try to disable DriveSpace DOS. The proper lines in the MSDOS.SYS file are DblSpace=0 and DrvSpace=0, right?

I did, and now, I have 437k free conventional memory. :) What more can I do?

Sjouke Burry

2019-03-02 20:52:22 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Okay. I'm at my mother's house right now and can try to disable DriveSpace DOS. The proper lines in the MSDOS.SYS file are DblSpace=0 and DrvSpace=0, right?

I did, and now, I have 437k free conventional memory. :) What more can I do?

Use 32 bit Watcom compiler.

I have an astro program with 400.000 stars and galaxys in t.
Using about 45 megabyte memory.

Harry Potter

2019-03-02 21:04:20 UTC

Post by Sjouke Burry
Use 32 bit Watcom compiler.
I have an astro program with 400.000 stars and galaxys in t.
Using about 45 megabyte memory.

Uhh...I have a lot of 3rd-party software to run. For example, I want to run a MIDI file player in the background while I'm playing on my DOS laptop. The compiler would only be useful if I have the sources, and most programs don't include them. :(

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 03:08:58 UTC

I'm *still* looking for more RAM from my Win98 computer's network DOS configuration. At the very least, I want to get QEMM's VidRAM utility to give me only 64k as my config. uses the mono video buffer for UMBs.

T. Ment

2019-03-24 03:22:03 UTC

On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 20:08:58 -0700 (PDT), Harry Potter

Post by Harry Potter
I'm *still* looking for more RAM from my Win98 computer's network DOS
configuration. At the very least, I want to get QEMM's VidRAM utility
to give me only 64k as my config. uses the mono video buffer for UMBs.

DOS networking and Win98 don't mix well. It's a recipe for frustation.

Many older network cards have a Win98 driver. What network card do you
have?

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 04:20:20 UTC

Post by T. Ment
DOS networking and Win98 don't mix well. It's a recipe for frustation.

I agree if you're trying to run DOS networking (TSRs) for the Windows GUI.

I didn't think there was any problem running DOS networking on MS-DOS
7.x ('98 MS-DOS mode). Which is what I think the OP is doing.

Post by T. Ment
Many older network cards have a Win98 driver. What network card do you
have?

Not all NICs that have drivers for Windows GUI mode also have drivers
for '98 MS-DOS mode.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 05:25:01 UTC

On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:20:20 -0600, Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor
I didn't think there was any problem running DOS networking on MS-DOS
7.x ('98 MS-DOS mode).

OK.

Post by Grant Taylor
Which is what I think the OP is doing.

I didn't know.

But why suffer QEMM? himem and emm386 from Win98 are stable, DOS low
memory should not be a problem with a network driver loaded high. A lot
depends on the network card though. Some drivers are good, others bad.

The RTL8139 DOS driver works well, takes about 35k memory.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 05:29:21 UTC

Post by T. Ment
But why suffer QEMM?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think that some of an answer to your question is in the rest of this
thread.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 15:29:25 UTC

Post by T. Ment
But why suffer QEMM?

I think that some of an answer to your question is in the rest of this
thread.

One thing I like about Usenet is, you can drop in and out of groups and
threads at will. It's not a mailing list constantly pushing posts you
don't want. Presently, I don't have enough interest to read the thread
history.

Win98 himem and emm386 should work (QEMM is dubious) unless you have
hardware problems with an old computer, like bad capacitors.

I invite the OP to (re)post details on NIC, NIC driver, startup files,
and desired network connectivity. On Usenet you can start over. Nobody
can stop you.

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 17:16:44 UTC

The following is the CONFIG.SYS file:
-----------------------
DOS=HIGH,UMB
Device=C:\WINDOWS\Himem.Sys
device=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe RAM i=b000-b7ff
DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\STACKER.COM F:
devicehigh=c:\dos\furd19_i\xmsdsk.exe 110000
DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\Screate.sys e:
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\STACKER4\redirect.com
devicehigh=C:\WINDOWS\command\ebd\oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
rem devicehigh/l:1 =c:\guest95\aspippm1.sys
rem devicehigh=C:\network\palmzip\0221\palmzip.sys
-------------------------
The AUTOEXEC.BAT file:
-------------------------
@echo off
SET TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;c:\dosnet;c:\network;c:\stacker4;c:\network\rar

lh guest95\guest

stacker e:
stacker f:

lh MSCDEX.EXE /D:mscd001 d:
lh doskey /insert
------------------------
The output from MEM/D:
------------------------

Conventional Memory Detail:

Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication Area
00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication Area
00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - C: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
CONFIG$ System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
000C9 5,760 (6K) MSDOS System Data
00231 177,232 (173K) IO System Data
1,152 (1K) XMSXXXX0 Installed Device=HIMEM
4,304 (4K) EMMXXXX0 Installed Device=EMM386
51,392 (50K) D: Installed Device=STACKER
36,048 (35K) MSCD001 Installed Device=OAKCDROM
83,152 (81K) DBLSBIN$ Installed Device=DBLSPACE
544 (1K) Sector buffer
512 (1K) BUFFERS=20
02D76 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
02D7B 19,280 (19K) GUEST Program
03230 96 (0K) COMMAND Data
03236 304 (0K) MEM Environment
03249 46,128 (45K) MSDOS -- Free --
03D8C 7,152 (7K) ASPIPPM1 Program
03F4B 4,688 (5K) DOSKEY Program
04070 30,736 (30K) DOSNET Program
047F1 90,464 (88K) MEM Program
05E07 268,160 (262K) MSDOS -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B15C 1 26,880 (26K) IO System Data
0B7EC 1 80 (0K) COMMAND Data
0B7F1 1 208 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0C801 2 624 (1K) IO System Data
592 (1K) E: Installed Device=XMSDSK
0C828 2 21,968 (21K) IO System Data
2,848 (3K) IFS$HLP$ Installed Device=IFSHLP
464 (0K) Block device tables
688 (1K) Drive map table
1,488 (1K) FILES=30
256 (0K) FCBS=4
10,720 (10K) BUFFERS=20
2,288 (2K) LASTDRIVE=Z
3,072 (3K) STACKS=9,256
0CD85 2 8,624 (8K) COMMAND Program
0CFA0 2 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0CFFA 2 64 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0E401 3 288 (0K) GUEST Environment
0E413 3 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0E463 3 5,536 (5K) COMMAND Program
0E5BD 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E617 3 3,728 (4K) MSDOS -- Free --

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 248,560 404,752
Upper 72,192 68,192 4,000
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 133,096,960 113,288,704 19,808,256
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,822,464 113,605,456 20,217,008

Total under 1 MB 725,504 316,752 408,752

Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 060000

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 20,054,016 (19M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 358,608 (350K)
Largest free upper memory block 3,728 (4K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

XMS version 3.00; driver version 3.95
EMS version 4.00
----------------------
BTW, I'm using a .PIF file in DOS mode for the config.

T. Ment

2019-03-24 18:00:58 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry Potter
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

You have a lot of stuff in your config. The first thing I do is get rid
of everything and start over, adding one piece at a time until I see
where the problem is.

I don't use stacker, I can't help you with that. Can you get rid of it
for testing?

I see dosnet, network, and network\rar in your path. Please explain each
piece and its intended use. Without the big picture, I can't help much.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, I'm using a .PIF file in DOS mode for the config.

A .PIF file in DOS mode? I'm not sure what that means. Are you booting
into DOS using a shortcut from the Windows GUI? Not that it matters, but
I never do that. I either boot to DOS command line or boot the Windows
GUI, using MDSOS.SYS file directives:

WinDir=D:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=D:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=D

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
DoubleBuffer=0
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222
BootMenu=1
BootMenuDelay=5
; BootMenuDefault=5
Logo=0
DisableLog=1
SystemReg=0
DblSpace=0
DrvSpace=0
Network=0
;

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 18:25:45 UTC

Post by T. Ment
You have a lot of stuff in your config. The first thing I do is get rid
of everything and start over, adding one piece at a time until I see
where the problem is.

The problem is low Conventional memory.

Post by T. Ment
I don't use stacker, I can't help you with that. Can you get rid of it
for testing?

I can get rid of it for testing, but it is needed for the network.

Post by T. Ment
I see dosnet, network, and network\rar in your path. Please explain each
piece and its intended use. Without the big picture, I can't help much.

dosnet is the network software; IIRC network is the stuff used by the network, and network\rar is the DOSRAR archiver.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, I'm using a .PIF file in DOS mode for the config.

Yes, I did. I do this because the network I'm using requires an extra setup.

Post by T. Ment
WinDir=D:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=D:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=D
[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
DoubleBuffer=0
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222
BootMenu=1
BootMenuDelay=5
; BootMenuDefault=5
Logo=0
DisableLog=1
SystemReg=0
DblSpace=0
DrvSpace=0
Network=0
;

T. Ment

2019-03-24 18:47:17 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT), Harry Potter

Post by Harry Potter
The problem is low Conventional memory.

That's the one thing I do understand.

stacker ... Can you get rid of it for testing?

I can get rid of it for testing, but it is needed for the network.

Stacker is disk compresssion. What that has to do with a network, is a
mystery to me.

Post by Harry Potter
dosnet is the network software; IIRC network is the stuff used by the
network, and network\rar is the DOSRAR archiver.

Your replies are cryptic. Please explain what you want.

A .PIF file in DOS mode? I'm not sure what that means. Are you booting
into DOS using a shortcut from the Windows GUI?

Yes, I did. I do this because the network I'm using requires an extra setup.

An extra setup? You mean it won't work unless you boot the GUI first?
That's messed up.

I can't spend much time untangling this mess, I have my own messes to
untangle. I can give you ideas on how to proceed, but you have to get
dirty and do the work.

Tell me the big picture, what you want to do.

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 19:02:32 UTC

Post by T. Ment
Stacker is disk compresssion. What that has to do with a network, is a
mystery to me.

One of the networked drives is compressed using Stacker.

Post by Harry Potter
dosnet is the network software; IIRC network is the stuff used by the
network, and network\rar is the DOSRAR archiver.

Your replies are cryptic. Please explain what you want.

I'm sorry. :(

Post by T. Ment
A .PIF file in DOS mode? I'm not sure what that means. Are you booting
into DOS using a shortcut from the Windows GUI?

Yes, I did. I do this because the network I'm using requires an extra setup.

An extra setup? You mean it won't work unless you boot the GUI first?
That's messed up.

Actually, yes, but I could use a floppy to start the system.

Post by T. Ment
I can't spend much time untangling this mess, I have my own messes to
untangle. I can give you ideas on how to proceed, but you have to get
dirty and do the work.
Tell me the big picture, what you want to do.

I just want to buy myself some more Conventional RAM. At least 500k if possible.

BTW, is there a utility to increase the Conventional RAM by 64k if the mono graphics buffer is used as UMBs?

T. Ment

2019-03-24 19:17:35 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT), Harry Potter

Post by Harry Potter
One of the networked drives is compressed using Stacker.

A compressed network drive. That sounds like fun.

Post by T. Ment
An extra setup? You mean it won't work unless you boot the GUI first?
That's messed up.

Actually, yes, but I could use a floppy to start the system.

What's that got to do with anything.

Post by Harry Potter
I just want to buy myself some more Conventional RAM.
At least 500k if possible.

Should not be a problem with himem and emm386.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, is there a utility to increase the Conventional RAM by 64k
if the mono graphics buffer is used as UMBs?

32k with emm386 and a i=b000-b7ff parameter. But if your video card is
VGA or higher, don't do it, it's unstable.

I'm not sure you're serious, but if you are, explain your network
requirements in detail. Otherwise, I'm losing interest.

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 19:46:12 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I just want to buy myself some more Conventional RAM.
At least 500k if possible.

Should not be a problem with himem and emm386.

Yes, but I'm not getting the memory I want.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, is there a utility to increase the Conventional RAM by 64k
if the mono graphics buffer is used as UMBs?

32k with emm386 and a i=b000-b7ff parameter. But if your video card is
VGA or higher, don't do it, it's unstable.

I do that, but I want to map A000-AFFF to Conventional memory if possible.

Post by T. Ment
I'm not sure you're serious, but if you are, explain your network
requirements in detail. Otherwise, I'm losing interest.

Basically, the network treats a Stacker-compressed Zip100 disk and a RAM-drive as extra simulated hard drives for a DOS laptop with no hard drive along with a local Zip100 disk and RAM drive. I'm doing this to add more usable drive space to the DOS laptop. The DOS laptop works fine with QEMM, but QEMM doesn't work properly on my Win98 computer. That's why I'm asking.

T. Ment

2019-03-24 20:01:56 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 12:46:12 -0700 (PDT), Harry Potter

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, is there a utility to increase the Conventional RAM by 64k
if the mono graphics buffer is used as UMBs?

32k with emm386 and a i=b000-b7ff parameter. But if your video card is
VGA or higher, don't do it, it's unstable.

I do that

I already told you, don't do that.

Post by Harry Potter
but I want to map A000-AFFF to Conventional memory if possible.

Don't do that either, unless you have a really old computer with a CGA
or mono video card.

Post by T. Ment
explain your network requirements in detail

Basically, the network

What network? After all these posts, you won't say.

Post by Harry Potter
treats a Stacker-compressed Zip100 disk and a
RAM-drive as extra simulated hard drives for a DOS laptop with no hard
drive along with a local Zip100 disk and RAM drive. I'm doing this to
add more usable drive space to the DOS laptop. The DOS laptop works
fine with QEMM, but QEMM doesn't work properly on my Win98 computer.

Sounds like expert help is needed.

Post by Harry Potter
That's why I'm asking

Good luck with that mess, Hairy.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 21:07:12 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Basically, the network treats a Stacker-compressed Zip100 disk and a
RAM-drive as extra simulated hard drives for a DOS laptop with no hard
drive along with a local Zip100 disk and RAM drive. I'm doing this to
add more usable drive space to the DOS laptop. The DOS laptop works
fine with QEMM, but QEMM doesn't work properly on my Win98 computer.
That's why I'm asking.

What are you booting the notebook off of? A floppy disk?

I take it that you're loading the guest driver to access the Zip disk,
and then are loading additional things off of the Zip disk, possibly
even a Stacker compressed drive off of the Zip disk.

I guess somewhere in there, you're loading networking off of something
(boot floppy, zip disk, compressed image living on the zip disk).

What networking technology are you using? What is "dosnet" that you
keep referring to?

Elsewhere in this thread you indicated that you were networking across
the serial port and not Ethernet (or Token Ring). Is that still the case?

Does your notebook have a CD-ROM? Do you /need/ to use the CD-ROM /in/
the notebook? Or could you access the CD-ROM via network share from the
Windows '98 machine? That might give you some more memory. (Though I
don't know what type and if it's of value to you or not.)

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 21:23:41 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:07:12 -0600, Grant Taylor

Elsewhere in this thread you indicated that you were networking across
the serial port and not Ethernet

If that's true, Hairy has a world of pain. A challenge can be fun, but
this one may require professional help.

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 22:03:24 UTC

I'm sorry for not being clear. I'm using NetSoft LAN with a null-modem serial connection. I'm booting the laptop from a floppy. The laptop doesn't have a CD-ROM drive, but I plan on sharing the Win98 computer's USB CD-ROM drive. To do that, I need more RAM on the Win98 PC. I'm using the mono video buffer for UMBs because I don't use that RAM for video: my first PC did that. I know the hazards of using the VGA video buffer for UMBs: switch to a graphics mode, and you will *overwrite* all that information, at best causing the computer to crash. QEMM has VidRAM, which *temporarily* extends Conventional memory into the video buffer, giving up to 96k more memory. However, it doesn't work on my Win98 computer: I get an error stating that the top of memory is *not* 640k. I have another program to do it, but I don't remember its name. Does this help?

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 22:39:43 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I'm sorry for not being clear. I'm using NetSoft LAN with a null-modem
serial connection.

Okay.

Post by Harry Potter
I'm booting the laptop from a floppy. The laptop doesn't have a CD-ROM
drive, but I plan on sharing the Win98 computer's USB CD-ROM drive.

How well does (what I'm going to call) DOS'98 like the USB CD-ROM? Is
there a reason that you're using USB instead of IDE / SCSI in the machine?

I say this because I think you're going to need another driver to get
DOS'98 to see the USB CD-ROM. Yet something else fighting you for memory.

Post by Harry Potter
To do that, I need more RAM on the Win98 PC. I'm using the mono video
buffer for UMBs because I don't use that RAM for video: my first PC did
that. … Does this help?

Yes, it does help.

I don't recall, why are you booting the '98 machine into MS-DOS mode?
So that you can run the NetSoft LAN?

I ask because I'm wondering if there's a chance that INTERLNK & INTERSVR
might be made to work inside of Windows. I want to say that I had
INTERSVR working in a MS-DOS window on my '98 machine back in the day.
But it's been too long for me to say with any degree of certainty.

If INTERSVR will run in a MS-DOS window on '98, then you should be in a
better place as '98 will use all of the system memory and you won't have
to worry about 640 kB entertainment.

I don't think '98's Direct Cable Connection is compatible with INTERLNK.
They are similar but different. DCC will actually support traditional
networking.

Are you using serial instead of parallel because of the parallel port
Zip drives?

Do you /need/ the Zip drive on the DOS laptop? Or could it be moved to
the '98 machine and shared with the DOS laptop via network? - Or am I
conflating where your memory problem is again?

--------

Please back up and refresh me / us on what is running on what machines,
what mode they are running in, and why.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 22:59:31 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:39:43 -0600, Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor
Please back up and refresh me / us on what is running on what machines,
what mode they are running in, and why.

Compressed network drives on a serial port lan? I know when to quit and
move on.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 23:23:43 UTC

Post by T. Ment
Compressed network drives on a serial port lan? I know when to quit and
move on.

You do you.

Harry's got a unique scenario. It involves networking, something I
like, and some other things I know a little bit about.

This thread's been on going for a month. So it's not like it is
anything fast or time demanding.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 23:33:18 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:23:43 -0600, Grant Taylor

Post by Grant Taylor
This thread's been on going for a month. So it's not like it is
anything fast or time demanding.

Like I said, on Usenet you can drop in or out, at will. Have fun.

Harry Potter

2019-03-24 23:25:08 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I'm booting the laptop from a floppy. The laptop doesn't have a CD-ROM
drive, but I plan on sharing the Win98 computer's USB CD-ROM drive.

How well does (what I'm going to call) DOS'98 like the USB CD-ROM? Is
there a reason that you're using USB instead of IDE / SCSI in the machine?

I don't know yet, as I didn't try it. I want more memory first.

Post by Grant Taylor
I say this because I think you're going to need another driver to get
DOS'98 to see the USB CD-ROM. Yet something else fighting you for memory.

Pretty much so.

Post by Harry Potter
To do that, I need more RAM on the Win98 PC. I'm using the mono video
buffer for UMBs because I don't use that RAM for video: my first PC did
that. … Does this help?

Yes, it does help.
I don't recall, why are you booting the '98 machine into MS-DOS mode?
So that you can run the NetSoft LAN?

Yes.

Post by Grant Taylor
I ask because I'm wondering if there's a chance that INTERLNK & INTERSVR
might be made to work inside of Windows. I want to say that I had
INTERSVR working in a MS-DOS window on my '98 machine back in the day.
But it's been too long for me to say with any degree of certainty.

I did at first, but I prefer NSLAN, as I get to share specific folders, not just drives.

Post by Grant Taylor
Are you using serial instead of parallel because of the parallel port
Zip drives?

Yes.

Post by Grant Taylor
Do you /need/ the Zip drive on the DOS laptop? Or could it be moved to
the '98 machine and shared with the DOS laptop via network? - Or am I
conflating where your memory problem is again?

The local Zip drive acts as a simulated hard drive before the network is in place. The network loads from there.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-25 03:14:54 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I don't know yet, as I didn't try it. I want more memory first.

Okay.

I suspect that getting USB to work in DOS'98 is going to take some of
the (conventional) memory that I think you are working so hard to gain.

Post by Harry Potter
Pretty much so.

Hence (one of the reasons) why I'd avoid attaching the CD-ROM via USB if
possible.

Post by Harry Potter
Yes.

ACK

So you really are working with MS-DOS 6.<something> and MS-DOS 7.<something>

Post by Harry Potter
I did at first, but I prefer NSLAN, as I get to share specific folders, not just drives.

Okay.

This may turn into a chosen limitation. I don't know.

Post by Harry Potter
Yes.

Have you tried the parallel cable between the two Zip drives? Does it
work? Does it error out? What happens?

Post by Harry Potter
The local Zip drive acts as a simulated hard drive before the network
is in place. The network loads from there.

Do you mean anything special by "simulated hard drive"? Because to me,
it's just another drive letter. One that happens to be on something
other than an internal hard drive.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-03-25 15:07:34 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
Have you tried the parallel cable between the two Zip drives? Does it
work? Does it error out? What happens?

I need the Zip drive attached to the Win98 PC for other purposes as well, so I can't attach it directly to the other Zip drive. :(

Post by Grant Taylor
Do you mean anything special by "simulated hard drive"? Because to me,
it's just another drive letter. One that happens to be on something
other than an internal hard drive.

When I say by "simulated hard drive" I mean something to take the place of a real hard drive wher none exists.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-25 16:14:39 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I need the Zip drive attached to the Win98 PC for other purposes as well,
so I can't attach it directly to the other Zip drive. :(

I think you misunderstand.

I'm asking about using the parallel port LapLink cable (I assume that
will work with NetSoft LAN / INTERLNK/INTERSVR) in place of the serial
cable.

Thus each ZIP drive will stay connected to the computer they are on.
Just put the communications cable between the out port of the ZIP drives.

Computer 1 Parallel Out <-> ZIP In
ZIP Out <-> communications cable

Computer 2 Parallel Out <-> ZIP In
ZIP Out <-> communications cable

Remember, you're supposed to be able to access parallel printers /
scanners / et al. through the ZIP drive. I'm wondering if NSLAN can
also work that way.

Post by Harry Potter
When I say by "simulated hard drive" I mean something to take the place
of a real hard drive wher none exists.

Okay. So, just another drive letter.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Harry Potter

2019-04-05 22:54:32 UTC

I am looking for a way to use the memory at $A000-$AFFF but not $B000-$B7FF as extra Conventional memory. What program can do that? Where can I find it on-line?

T. Ment

2019-04-05 23:23:17 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I am looking for a way to use the memory at $A000-$AFFF

That only works for an old computer with a CGA or mono card. If you have
a VGA or SVGA card, forget it. It won't work.

I already told you how to solve your low memory problem, but you refuse
to do the diagnostic work. There is no magic, Harry.

2019-04-06 19:46:14 UTC

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

Kerr-Mudd,John

2019-04-06 20:06:02 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I am looking for a way to use the memory at $A000-$AFFF but not
$B000-$B7FF as extra Conventional memory. What program can do that?
Where can I find it on-line?

emm386.exe. But you'll have to run all your programs in B&W monochrome
text. (so no w98)

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Harry Potter

2019-04-06 20:50:20 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
emm386.exe. But you'll have to run all your programs in B&W monochrome
text. (so no w98)

QEMM comes with a utility called VidRAM that temporarily allows the use of the VGA video buffer as Conventional memory. That is what I want: *temporary* use of the RAM at $A000-$AFFF as Conventional memory.

BTW, I'm sorry about the confusion. The Win98 computer can run a .PIF file that sets up a temporary network with a DOS/Win16 laptop. The DOS laptop runs QEMM which gives me a *lot* of memory. The laptop starts up from a floppy that contains enough software to set up a ZIP100 drive as a hard drive. From there, a batch file sets up the network. I'm sorry I can't give the techs.: I'm not at my mother's house where the two computers reside. :(

T. Ment, can you repeat the help, please? I can't find it. :(

Harry Potter

2019-04-06 21:00:50 UTC

I use a Zip100 drive on the Win98 computer. I could buy some memory if I can load the ASPIPPM1.SYS file, loaded by the Zip100 GUEST driver, high. I could buy *more* memory if I could use PalmZip instead, but PalmZip is unreliable. :( I can't seem to load the .SYS driver high from the CONFIG.SYS file. Any help?

T. Ment

2019-04-06 21:30:37 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
QEMM comes with a utility called VidRAM that temporarily allows the use
*temporary* use of the RAM at $A000-$AFFF as Conventional memory.

VidRAM may work with CGA video cards, but they are rare now. I doubt you
have one. It's unstable with VGA.

Post by Harry Potter
The Win98 computer can run a .PIF file that sets up a temporary
network with a DOS/Win16 laptop.

You don't need a Win98 PIF file. I setup a Netsoft serial port LAN
between two computers, and I did not need Win98. My low DOS memory was
600K+. Your setup is too complicated. Simplify it.

Post by Harry Potter
T. Ment, can you repeat the help, please? I can't find it.

Strip everything out of your config and boot to bare DOS, See how much
memory you have. Reinstall Netsoft LAN with minimum options. See again
how much memory you have. Add things back into your config, one at a
time, until you see which one is the memory hog.

It's a step by step process anyone can do. But you seem unwilling to do
the work.

Harry Potter

2019-04-06 22:03:28 UTC

Post by T. Ment
VidRAM may work with CGA video cards, but they are rare now. I doubt you
have one. It's unstable with VGA.

The reason I want to use VidRAM is for text-based programs that don't need VGA graphics. You're right, though: it may not be worth the risk.

Post by Harry Potter
The Win98 computer can run a .PIF file that sets up a temporary
network with a DOS/Win16 laptop.

You don't need a Win98 PIF file. I setup a Netsoft serial port LAN
between two computers, and I did not need Win98. My low DOS memory was
600K+. Your setup is too complicated. Simplify it.

I *could* use a start-up floppy to start the network. I use a PIF file because the network is temporary, and, when I'm done with the network, I want to reboot to Win98.

Post by Harry Potter
T. Ment, can you repeat the help, please? I can't find it.

Strip everything out of your config and boot to bare DOS, See how much
memory you have. Reinstall Netsoft LAN with minimum options. See again
how much memory you have. Add things back into your config, one at a
time, until you see which one is the memory hog.
It's a step by step process anyone can do. But you seem unwilling to do
the work.

The reason I am unwilling to do the work is because I want *all* the programs to be loaded at start-up.

BTW, the files listed in my second post here are for the Win98 DOS mode network configuration.

T. Ment

2019-04-06 22:33:29 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I *could* use a start-up floppy to start the network. I use a PIF
file because the network is temporary, and, when I'm done with the
network, I want to reboot to Win98.

You don't need to boot from floppy, and you don't need to boot from a
Win98 PIF file. Configure MSDOS.SYS to give you the Win98 startup menu.
You will see.

1. Normal (Win98)
...
5. Command prompt only (DOS)

After using DOS, reboot the machine and choose 1 for Win98. Simple as
pie. Here's a sample MSDOS.SYS to get you started. My Win98 is on drive
D, change that to C if that's where your Win98 is.

[Paths]
WinDir=D:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=D:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=D

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
DoubleBuffer=0
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222
BootMenu=1
BootMenuDelay=5
BootMenuDefault=1
Logo=0
DisableLog=1
SystemReg=0
DblSpace=0
DrvSpace=0
Network=0
;

BootMenuDefault=1 makes Win98 the default. You can change that to =5 if
you want DOS as the default.

Post by Harry Potter
The reason I am unwilling to do the work is because I want *all* the
programs to be loaded at start-up.

You can't have what you want Harry. Do what I said to learn who the
memory hog is. After discovering that, then you can decide what to do
about it.

Post by Harry Potter
BTW, the files listed in my second post here are for the Win98 DOS mode
network configuration.

I won't analyze your config to solve your problem for you. That's your
job. Get to work and stop being a pest. You're like a nagging female.

Harry Potter

2019-04-06 23:47:25 UTC

I just looked at my config. files as posted here and can only remove DOSKEY and the CD driver, but DOSKEY is very small and the CD driver may be needed soon.

T. Ment

2019-04-07 00:38:19 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I just looked at my config. files as posted here and can only
remove DOSKEY and the CD driver, but DOSKEY is very small and
the CD driver may be needed soon.

You don't listen do you. You must be female. All talk no listen. I don't
give much time to nagging females.

Grant Taylor

2019-04-07 02:12:27 UTC

Post by T. Ment
You don't listen do you. You must be female. All talk no listen. I don't
give much time to nagging females.

Not cool.

Please hold the insults and keep it friendly.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-04-07 02:34:01 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
Not cool.
Please hold the insults and keep it friendly.

"Harry" won't do any work to solve the problem. If "Harry" is female,
saying so is not an insult.

Philistine warriors could not defeat Samson, but a nagging female broke
his will. I avoid them.

Harry Potter

2019-04-07 11:55:49 UTC

Post by T. Ment
You don't listen do you. You must be female. All talk no listen. I don't
give much time to nagging females.

I'm *not* a female. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. :( Again, I don't know what I can remove from the setup, as I need most of the items in the setup.

BTW, I don't need the CD driver right now. Maybe I'll remove it.

T. Ment

2019-04-07 15:56:29 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I'm *not* a female.

Hmmm.

Post by Harry Potter
I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

You don't listen. I showed you how to use MSDOS.SYS to configure the
Win98 boot menu. Do that, instead of using a PIF file to boot into DOS
from Win98. That simplifies things, so that Win98 is not involved in
your low memory problem.

Post by Harry Potter
Again, I don't know what I can remove from the setup

Stop thinking about what you want, and start working to diagnose the
memory hog. Temporarily, remove everything. Make copies of your startup
files to keep backups of them, then strip everything out of the working
copies and start from scratch.

Post by Harry Potter
I need most of the items in the setup.

Saying that over and over won't fix the problem. Stop complaining, and
do the diagnostic work, If you won't, you're just nagging, like a woman.
And I have no interest in that.

Grant Taylor

2019-04-07 16:05:03 UTC

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

T. Ment

2019-04-07 16:53:21 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor
I agree that booting into Windows and then rebooting into MS-DOS mode is
largely unnecessary for the OP's stated goal. But I don't see how that
sequence alters what is (not) loaded in the MS-DOS mode's configuration.

You can't be sure Win98 has no effect on DOS memory rebooted from a PIF.
To make sure, don't do that. Use the Win98 boot menu to go straight into
DOS after power up.

The book DOS Internals discusses problems of warm rebooting.

Post by T. Ment
And I have no interest in that.

So ignore it.

If you don't like them, you can ignore my posts too.

Harry Potter

2019-04-08 10:50:50 UTC

Post by T. Ment
You can't be sure Win98 has no effect on DOS memory rebooted from a PIF.
To make sure, don't do that. Use the Win98 boot menu to go straight into
DOS after power up.

Windows doesn't boot up in the custom config. as the .PIF file containing the config. boots in DOS mode.

Post by T. Ment
The book DOS Internals discusses problems of warm rebooting.

Post by T. Ment
And I have no interest in that.

So ignore it.

If you don't like them, you can ignore my posts too.

T. Ment

2019-04-08 15:00:39 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Windows doesn't boot up in the custom config. as the .PIF file
containing the config. boots in DOS mode.

Solving a problem is not your intention. Have fun trolling.

Grant Taylor

2019-03-24 20:56:49 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
One of the networked drives is compressed using Stacker.

So do you use Stacker to mount a compressed drive image and then load
the network driver from there?

Why can't you store this driver on the hard drive and avoid the
complexity and memory consumption that comes with it?

Or is your ultimate end target to get this working on a boot disk?

If so I'd suggest looking at extracting a CAB (et al.) file to a RAM drive.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

T. Ment

2019-03-24 21:10:07 UTC

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:56:49 -0600, Grant Taylor

Post by Harry Potter
One of the networked drives is compressed using Stacker.

So do you use Stacker to mount a compressed drive image and then load
the network driver from there?

After many posts, Hairy never said what the network card, driver, or
software is. I can't take that seriously.

Harry Potter

2019-04-13 16:11:42 UTC

I understand that I haven't been doing my job while asking for help. I have here the memory layout of DOS memory:
-------------------

Conventional Memory Detail:

Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication Area
00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication Area
00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - C: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
CONFIG$ System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
000C9 5,760 (6K) MSDOS System Data
00231 177,232 (173K) IO System Data
1,152 (1K) XMSXXXX0 Installed Device=HIMEM
4,304 (4K) EMMXXXX0 Installed Device=EMM386
51,392 (50K) D: Installed Device=STACKER
36,048 (35K) MSCD001 Installed Device=OAKCDROM
83,152 (81K) DBLSBIN$ Installed Device=DBLSPACE
544 (1K) Sector buffer
512 (1K) BUFFERS=20
02D76 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
02D7B 19,280 (19K) GUEST Program
03230 96 (0K) COMMAND Data
03236 304 (0K) MEM Environment
03249 46,128 (45K) MSDOS -- Free --
03D8C 7,152 (7K) ASPIPPM1 Program
03F4B 4,688 (5K) DOSKEY Program
04070 30,736 (30K) DOSNET Program
047F1 90,464 (88K) MEM Program
05E07 268,160 (262K) MSDOS -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B15C 1 26,880 (26K) IO System Data
0B7EC 1 80 (0K) COMMAND Data
0B7F1 1 208 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0C801 2 624 (1K) IO System Data
592 (1K) E: Installed Device=XMSDSK
0C828 2 21,968 (21K) IO System Data
2,848 (3K) IFS$HLP$ Installed Device=IFSHLP
464 (0K) Block device tables
688 (1K) Drive map table
1,488 (1K) FILES=30
256 (0K) FCBS=4
10,720 (10K) BUFFERS=20
2,288 (2K) LASTDRIVE=Z
3,072 (3K) STACKS=9,256
0CD85 2 8,624 (8K) COMMAND Program
0CFA0 2 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0CFFA 2 64 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0E401 3 288 (0K) GUEST Environment
0E413 3 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0E463 3 5,536 (5K) COMMAND Program
0E5BD 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E617 3 3,728 (4K) MSDOS -- Free --

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 248,560 404,752
Upper 72,192 68,192 4,000
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 133,096,960 113,288,704 19,808,256
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,822,464 113,605,456 20,217,008

Total under 1 MB 725,504 316,752 408,752

Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 060000

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 20,054,016 (19M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 358,608 (350K)
Largest free upper memory block 3,728 (4K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

XMS version 3.00; driver version 3.95
EMS version 4.00
-------------------------
I can remove the CD driver as I don't currently need it, but I may want it in the future. Does this help?

Harry Potter

2019-04-13 16:52:02 UTC

I found the memory hog: DriveSpace boots with the system. I disabled it and now have 517k Conventional memory. :D I want to load the ASPIPPM1 driver high but had no success. :( I'll try again.

Harry Potter

2019-04-13 17:11:17 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I found the memory hog: DriveSpace boots with the system. I disabled it and now have 517k Conventional memory. :D I want to load the ASPIPPM1 driver high but had no success. :( I'll try again.

Uhh...I have a problem: there is a costly memory hole that is eating up free memory and preventing over 40k from being used by DOS programs. The current memory layout follows:
-----------------------

Conventional Memory Detail:

Segment Total Name Type
------- ---------------- ----------- --------
00000 1,024 (1K) Interrupt Vector
00040 256 (0K) ROM Communication Area
00050 512 (1K) DOS Communication Area
00070 1,424 (1K) IO System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
A: - C: System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
CONFIG$ System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver
000C9 5,120 (5K) MSDOS System Data
00209 58,000 (57K) IO System Data
1,152 (1K) XMSXXXX0 Installed Device=HIMEM
4,304 (4K) EMMXXXX0 Installed Device=EMM386
51,392 (50K) D: Installed Device=STACKER
512 (1K) BUFFERS=20
544 (1K) Sector buffer
01032 80 (0K) MSDOS System Program
01037 19,280 (19K) GUEST Program
014EC 96 (0K) COMMAND Data
014F2 304 (0K) MEM Environment
01505 46,128 (45K) MSDOS -- Free --
02048 7,152 (7K) ASPIPPM1 Program
02207 30,736 (30K) DOSNET Program
02988 90,464 (88K) MEM Program
03F9E 392,720 (384K) MSDOS -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

Segment Region Total Name Type
------- ------ ---------------- ----------- --------
0B15C 1 21,264 (21K) IO System Data
2,848 (3K) IFS$HLP$ Installed Device=IFSHLP
464 (0K) Block device tables
1,488 (1K) FILES=30
256 (0K) FCBS=4
10,720 (10K) BUFFERS=20
2,288 (2K) LASTDRIVE=Z
3,072 (3K) STACKS=9,256
0B68D 1 288 (0K) GUEST Environment
0B69F 1 5,536 (5K) COMMAND Program
0B7F9 1 80 (0K) MSDOS -- Free --

0C801 2 624 (1K) IO System Data
592 (1K) E: Installed Device=XMSDSK
0C828 2 4,688 (5K) DOSKEY Program
0C94D 2 1,280 (1K) SERIAL Program
0C99D 2 26,128 (26K) MSDOS -- Free --

0E401 3 8,624 (8K) COMMAND Program
0E61C 3 80 (0K) COMMAND Data
0E621 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E67B 3 1,440 (1K) COMMAND Environment
0E6D5 3 688 (1K) MSDOS -- Free --

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 124,000 529,312
Upper 72,192 45,296 26,896
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 133,096,960 113,288,704 19,808,256
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 133,822,464 113,458,000 20,364,464

Total under 1 MB 725,504 169,296 556,208

Handle EMS Name Size
------- -------- ------
0 060000

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 20,054,016 (19M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Memory accessible using Int 15h 0 (0K)
Largest executable program size 483,168 (472K)
Largest free upper memory block 26,128 (26K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

XMS version 3.00; driver version 3.95
EMS version 4.00
----------------------
Also, when I try to load the ASPIPPM1 driver high and manually, it can't find the cable that connects the Zip drive to the PC. :(

o***@gmail.com

2019-04-14 15:21:25 UTC

Try using SlimWin, it makes windows from 1GB to 46MB.

Harry Potter

2019-04-14 17:07:17 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
Try using SlimWin, it makes windows from 1GB to 46MB.

How will that help?

2019-04-16 07:40:53 UTC

Post by o***@gmail.com
Try using SlimWin, it makes windows from 1GB to 46MB.

How will that help?

Obviously, he misunderstood your problem.

Harry Potter

2019-04-19 18:02:02 UTC

I found out why VidRAM wouldn't give me extra RAM: the Conventional memory is 638k. :( I also *still* need to close the RAM gap on the Win98 computer in the network configuration DOS mode. What could be causing it? I have until Sunday night to fix it: if I don't fix it by then, I'll have to wait a while to fix it.

Harry Potter

2019-04-27 19:35:04 UTC

Uhh...I still have the memory hole, and Windows keeps resetting MSDOS.SYS and its D*Space entries when I exit the network mode. :(

T. Ment

2019-04-27 19:45:30 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
Uhh...I still have the memory hole,
and Windows keeps resetting MSDOS.SYS
and its D*Space entries when I exit
the network mode. :(

Computers are not for everyone. It's only a passing fad anyway. Don't
worry about it.

Soon, the earth will return to the way God intended. No more industrial
carcinogens. No more high tech. If traveling by foot and donkey was good
enough for Jesus, that's what we can expect.

Harry Potter

2019-04-27 23:15:08 UTC

I think the cause of the memory hole is due to ASPIPPM1.SYS file being loaded on *top* of the Guest driver. I want to load the .SYS file high from the CONFIG.SYS file. I tried to do that, but the display said that the connection couldn't be found. How do I load the driver high?

Harry Potter

2019-04-27 23:48:57 UTC

I added to the EMM386 command line the NOEMS parameter, and it bought me a lot of memory. :)

Kerr-Mudd,John

2019-04-29 10:04:24 UTC

Post by Harry Potter
I added to the EMM386 command line the NOEMS parameter, and it bought
me a lot of memory. :)

64k I'd imagine.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

2019-04-30 08:18:53 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
64k I'd imagine.

Yes, but using EMM386 without EMS is problematic, IME. It'd be better to use
plain UMB manager.

T. Ment

2019-04-30 14:01:53 UTC

Post by JJ
Yes, but using EMM386 without EMS is problematic

What problem?

Post by JJ
It'd be better to use >plain UMB manager

You mean UMBPCI? It's not always compatible with ISA DMA in UMBs.
Depends on the chipset. EMM386 does not have the problem.

2019-05-01 12:48:27 UTC

Post by T. Ment
What problem?

Some protected mode programs will fail to run. As if the VM86 mode that
EMM386 have set up, got crippled.

Post by T. Ment
You mean UMBPCI? It's not always compatible with ISA DMA in UMBs.
Depends on the chipset. EMM386 does not have the problem.

Yes. I'm aware that it's not for all systems. I mean, if it's applicable,
it's better to use it than EMM386 if UMB is the priority. EMM386 is more
successful on providing UMB, but it uses VM86 mode for that.

T. Ment

2019-05-01 15:13:51 UTC

Post by JJ
Some protected mode programs will fail to run. As if the VM86 mode that
EMM386 have set up, got crippled.

That requires a DOS extender. That's not the purpose of EMM386. A DOS
extender may conflict with EMM386, or not. That gets deep. It becomes a
case by case question.